CHL Discussion thread

[CJ]

It's all to make the person feel like they are in control. Outside of basic point and shoot tactics, the rest (to me) seems like exhibition. Do you know how to work your gun? Do you know how to aim it? Buy my video to see how to shoot akimbo while diving to cover.

[Moose242]

I have, and I do. By that I mean rounds on target. I hope your uncle never shoots someone he doesn't wanna hit by just aiming in the general direction. Granted, I don't know what situation he was in.

He is a 32 year DPD vet. When I was your age and had a question about handgun shooting technique, he laughed at me and said that SOP is to duck, point gun over barrier, and shoot.

He was talking to CJ and I one night (maybe Chris was there?) about it all and he teared up after talking about the people he has shot. The problem with all this magpulesque training is it does provide a false sense of security to the wielder of a handgun.

[Cobraman]

What do you mean maximum capacity? You point the thing at whatever you want to die and pull the trigger. It literally is that simple.
My uncle has been in numerous shootouts and says when things go south, you duck behind something, point in the general direction and just start pulling the trigger. You will not have this ability to magically enter Magpul Warrior Lifestyle mode and pull off two simultaneous Mozambique drills.

Man, I thought you said pistols were very limited in what they can do, sounds like they are simple and do plenty...

My advice would be to shoot a few IDPA matches. Have fun, learn to shoot competitively, and do it all for cheap.

Ah, so train?

but why?

[Probie]

Dude, what the fuck are you talking about? Do you want me to get some prices on super-ultra Chris Costa Tactical Arm Tape

[Cobraman]

Not at all. Buy a gun, get a holster, get a license, and hit the range. You do not need to waste money on a class with someone who is a self proclaimed warrior. Know that handguns are very limited in what they can accomplish, and are literally the worst firearm possible to use when engaging anyone. The only reason we carry them is out of necessity.

If there is a necessity to carry, there is a necessity to train. Seeing how an overwhelming amount of people are killed by pistols every year, I'd say they can accomplish plenty. How likely is it that you are going to have your $$$ mp5 ready to go when some carjacks you or robs you walking to your car?

[Probie]

What do you mean maximum capacity? You point the thing at whatever you want to die and pull the trigger. It literally is that simple.
My uncle has been in numerous shootouts and says when things go south, you duck behind something, point in the general direction and just start pulling the trigger. You will not have this ability to magically enter Magpul Warrior Lifestyle mode and pull off two simultaneous Mozambique drills.

My advice would be to shoot a few IDPA matches. Have fun, learn to shoot competitively, and do it all for cheap.

I have, and I do. By that I mean rounds on target. I hope your uncle never shoots someone he doesn't wanna hit by just aiming in the general direction. Granted, I don't know what situation he was in.

[YALE]

Am I the only one that's read Bill Jordan's book?

[Moose242]

But why not learn to use the pistol at its maximum capacity? I understand that every pistol round one would use for cc is weak. But you can only teach yourself so much shooting at paper. What is wrong with getting instruction from someone who knows what they are doing?

What do you mean maximum capacity? You point the thing at whatever you want to die and pull the trigger. It literally is that simple.
My uncle has been in numerous shootouts and says when things go south, you duck behind something, point in the general direction and just start pulling the trigger. You will not have this ability to magically enter Magpul Warrior Lifestyle mode and pull off two simultaneous Mozambique drills.

My advice would be to shoot a few IDPA matches. Have fun, learn to shoot competitively, and do it all for cheap.

[CJ]

No, but I don't give a shit about how pistol fighting in 1979 went- I care about it now, where forum and technique have evolved to make olden day pistol fighting look about as stupid as fighting the civil war gentleman's style.

It is like saying it is pointless for firemen to train because as soon as they walk in a burning building fear will hit them and they will forget everything and curl up into a ball.

I suggest less watching videos/reading more trigger time. Most of the shit out there is designed to get you to buy a product of some sort. Buying a reloading press and loading 2,000 rounds to shoot is going to give you far more experience than any stupid video by some guy who has a few badges and proclaims himself to be an expert. Real soldiers don't use pistols in combat, as a matter of fact, no expert shooter is going to be using a pistol to save his life in a situation, it's a last resort. So I take all of the pistol training videos, etc. with a grain of salt. 99% of the people teaching that stuff have the same real world experience as you do shooting other people.

[Probie]

Not at all. Buy a gun, get a holster, get a license, and hit the range. You do not need to waste money on a class with someone who is a self proclaimed warrior. Know that handguns are very limited in what they can accomplish, and are literally the worst firearm possible to use when engaging anyone. The only reason we carry them is out of necessity.

But why not learn to use the pistol at its maximum capacity? I understand that every pistol round one would use for cc is weak. But you can only teach yourself so much shooting at paper. What is wrong with getting instruction from someone who knows what they are doing?

[Moose242]

No, but I don't give a shit about how pistol fighting in 1979 went- I care about it now, where forum and technique have evolved to make olden day pistol fighting look about as stupid as fighting the civil war gentleman's style.

Dude, what the fuck are you talking about? Do you want me to get some prices on super-ultra Chris Costa Tactical Arm Tape for you?

[Moose242]

That is true. But saying " I can't be prepared for everything" is no reason to not be prepared at all.

Not at all. Buy a gun, get a holster, get a license, and hit the range. You do not need to waste money on a class with someone who is a self proclaimed warrior. Know that handguns are very limited in what they can accomplish, and are literally the worst firearm possible to use when engaging anyone. The only reason we carry them is out of necessity.

[Cobraman]

Do you think fighting with pistols was invented in 2008 or something?

No, but I don't give a shit about how pistol fighting in 1979 went- I care about it now, where forum and technique have evolved to make olden day pistol fighting look about as stupid as fighting the civil war gentleman's style.

It is like saying it is pointless for firemen to train because as soon as they walk in a burning building fear will hit them and they will forget everything and curl up into a ball.

[Probie]

Ultimately his life was unfortunately cut short by a lunatic that no amount of preparedness could help.

That is true. But saying " I can't be prepared for everything" is no reason to not be prepared at all.

[Moose242]

Jeff Cooper said, "A pistol is for fighting your way back to the rifle you never should've laid down in the first place."

I fucking love that quote.