CHL Discussion thread

[phaux]

Here we go, here's the actual article, a few of my facts are off. It's a pretty good read and yet another reason I don't like 1911's as concealed guns(prepare for the "1911 is the god of all pistols" lashback)

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/988015_.html&page=1

[phaux]

That was a wild thread. The CCW arfcom guy posts there as Blitz_308, he actually took a hit in both hands, the upper chest and a grazer across the stomach.

Ya, it was a neat article, wasn't sure if I remembered everything exactly correct as it had been a while since I read it. All in all it turned out pretty good for the guy :P

Said he didn't know about any of the hits except the one to his hands until it was over.

From ppl I know or read about it either seems they don't know they were hit until after things slow down and someone tells them/they see it, or it drops them to the ground. I have two friends who were hit in Afghanistan, one with a 9mm and the other with 7.62x39 and it floored both of them.

[DON SVO]

...There's a really good thread on arfcom(settle down...) by one of the poster on there that was in a shootout. Him and a couple of buddy's got robbed at gun point. There were 4-5 of them and one gun man. After pulling a gun the guy lead them inside and made them lay on there belly's at which point the chl holder thought they were going to be executed and so he made a tough decision to move his gun under his stomach. When the gun man went from person to person taking their wallets he saw the guy had an empty holster, freaked, and the chl holder turned over and they exchange lead. Even at point blank range they each barely injured each other with most bullets missing. I want to say the chl holder got a pass through in the arm and one in the hand which fucked his hand, the assailant took a bullet but it wasn't much. Assailant ran off and they caught him the next day still hiding out within a couple hndred yrds from the crime scene like a dumbass. I t was a good read with lots of pics, arfcom got together and bought the dude a nice ass 1911.

That was a wild thread. The CCW arfcom guy posts there as Blitz_308, he actually took a hit in both hands, the upper chest and a grazer across the stomach. Said he didn't know about any of the hits except the one to his hands until it was over.

[phaux]

Ultimately, if someone gets the drop on you, you're fucked. If someone comes up to you and has gun out already you're not gunna pull some Steven Segal shit and take his gun and shoot him with it, you're gunna do what he tells you to. I know, cuz it's happened to me. Yet there's always some billy badass out there that talks about how he'd disarm the assistant, blah blah blah... There may be ppl out there that can/do that Segal shit, but me, I'd rather not take the chance of getting a chunk of lead in the chest from someone already pointing a gun at me unless my wife's/dog's/family's life is in danger.

Now if you see something going down, or about to, from a distance, then you may have a chance. There are so many other variables though that people never think about when doing this 'training' such as collateral damage(other ppl), getting your gun without drawing attention to yourself, adrenalin, etc. When that adrenalin starts pumping its a whole different world, you get tunnel vision, fidgety, increased heart rate, etc. Training at the range teaches you how to pull the trigger, not how to pull the trigger while pointing at another living soul as people are screaming and your heart is racing so fast you think you're going to pass out.

Most of the vids you see of ppl counterattacking an assailant who has a gun out show the assailant usually not paying attention to/away from the chl holder or they do something stupid such as set the gun down. Except the India/Middle Eastern store clerks who pull guns on ppl while a gun is on them already and shoot them, those mother fuckers are crazy, and pissed from being robbed so many times they don't give a fuck.

There's a really good thread on arfcom(settle down...) by one of the poster on there that was in a shootout. Him and a couple of buddy's got robbed at gun point. There were 4-5 of them and one gun man. After pulling a gun the guy lead them inside and made them lay on there belly's at which point the chl holder thought they were going to be executed and so he made a tough decision to move his gun under his stomach. When the gun man went from person to person taking their wallets he saw the guy had an empty holster, freaked, and the chl holder turned over and they exchange lead. Even at point blank range they each barely injured each other with most bullets missing. I want to say the chl holder got a pass through in the arm and one in the hand which fucked his hand, the assailant took a bullet but it wasn't much. Assailant ran off and they caught him the next day still hiding out within a couple hndred yrds from the crime scene like a dumbass. I t was a good read with lots of pics, arfcom got together and bought the dude a nice ass 1911.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with these classes, just that nothing but the real thing can prepare you for the real thing.

As for me, I practice with a pistol with no front sight cuz I'm operator as fuck

[helosailor]

Ever been startled? Would you be able to get off two rounds accurately in the same amount of time in response?

The correct answer is "no". Training is good, but it can never prepare you for everything. The best tools you have are your brain, and a good dose of luck.

[Pokulski-Blatz]

http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/201...ation-in-2009/

"As Kyle turned, leaning into the open passenger door of the truck, he reached into his own waistband. With his right hand, he grabbed his Colt 1911. He fired two shots under his left armpit, hitting the first guy twice in the chest. Then he turned slightly and fired twice more, hitting the second man twice in the chest. Both men fell dead."

Sounds like something that a shit load of practice can teach you. I don't think that any class will teach you the patented Kyle-under-pit shot.

[Pokulski-Blatz]

CHL class doesn't have a damn thing to do with pistol training. It's about law. It doesn't matter who you take the class from.

He is talking about taking an additional pistol class.

I view a CHL as a way tgtfo not be a hero.

Exactly. I don't think Probie has that part figured out yet.

[whitetrash]

CHL class doesn't have a damn thing to do with pistol training. It's about law. It doesn't matter who you take the class from.

And they are right. The only way you will be prepared with training is if someone is shooting back at you. In a real life scenario, even with years of range time, your probably gonna miss anyway. Adrenaline kicks in, fear of dying ect. I view a CHL as a way tgtfo not be a hero.

[Cooter]

The fact of the matter is that in an actual confrontation, your "training" won't do a damn thing. Obviously knowing how to shoot is important, but having some ultra-high-speed-ninja operator teach you how to kill some fools like John Woo won't do shit.

Take the money you would be spending on that yokel's class and get a gym membership. Better investment in yourself and can lead to some great self defense tactics if you opt to develop them.

lol, everything this man is telling you is spot-teH-fuck-on

carry on

[Moose242]

That is the greatest avatar in the history of man.

[Pokulski-Blatz]

Mother of God. I wish people would spend more time reading the law and understanding it instead of watching a tactical beard roll around in the dirt.

Spend money on shooting to develop your own shooting style, just like the tactical beard did. Also, spending some cash on a gym wouldn't be a bad idea (for many in this thread, but mostly the overweight early twenty-somethings). The only thing taking a tactical beard class is going to do is cause you to look harder for situations to use your expensive training.

Ben, if you want to play operator join the military, otherwise just enjoy guns and leave the tactical Kippah in the closet.

P.S. - my new avatar is a cartoonist's rendering of you at the range. Enjoy.

[Cobraman]

You are a hard headed man:
Cliffs-
-Handguns are not as deadly as most people think. 6 out of 7 people survive their injuries
-It’s impossible to assess injury severity at scene properly
-There are often no exit wounds
-Handguns have a very low penetration depth

Sure, But I'm not so much interested killing a threat as I am stopping or slowing a threat. If dude survives, has no exit wound, or my round has low penetration depth is the least of my worries. I care about my life and preserving it.

Note: as isolated and a-typical as it may be- Zimmerman killed trayvon with a single round of 9mm.

[DieselSmoke]

Not really relative to this current discussion but I've had a CHL for 9 years and hardly carry anymore. Really don't know why but i guess laziness and worrying about concealing it, use to never leave the home without it. I was in my early 20's when i got it and remember thinking i was a badass or invincible now because i was carrying, so don't go there.

But anyhow… Practice and all is good, but like Tyson said "everyone has a plan until…" By all means practice, take the classes, watch all the videos and read all the books you want. Whatever you got to do to fell comfortable when you're carrying.

[Moose242]

Man, I thought you said pistols were very limited in what they can do, sounds like they are simple and do plenty...

You are a hard headed man:





Cliffs-
-Handguns are not as deadly as most people think. 6 out of 7 people survive their injuries
-It’s impossible to assess injury severity at scene properly
-There are often no exit wounds
-Handguns have a very low penetration depth

[Moose242]

Ah, so train?

but why?

Competitive shooting is to carrying concealed as driving a Porsche GT3 Cup Car at MSR is to driving your Camry to work. Yes, the two are reasonably similar, but realize that not everything will be the same.