United States Grand Prix - Formula One (F1) - Austin

[GAP]

I bought general admission tickets a month or two ago.

[mk5.0]

Has anyone bought tickets for the race yet ?

[aggie97]

indycar doesn't rent race tracks, they sell a show, like nascar. Without TV money however, which is why they are short on tracks. Can't make money with an indycar race, period. For the Izod Indycar series to bring a circus to your tent, will cost you about $1,000,000.

with dismal ticket sales, that's a hard check to write!

[Grape]

The track will be finished, the event in 2012 will happen. I just don't see a bright future for the property in coming years unless they can start getting more and more events from Rolex, Continental Tire series, ALMS, IndyCar, NASA, SCCA and any other group that can afford to rent the track. Hell, I would rent it for a weekend HPDE if I could charge my customers $1200 each for the two day weekend instead of the usual $300.

indycar doesn't rent race tracks, they sell a show, like nascar. Without TV money however, which is why they are short on tracks. Can't make money with an indycar race, period. For the Izod Indycar series to bring a circus to your tent, will cost you about $1,000,000.

[Grape]

And back to dodging the yes or no question and bringing up profitability instead. I'm not arguing with you on profitability, because I agree that it's going to lose money and bucketloads of it; we've already had that discussion. I don't think the people involved on the money side truly give a fuck about the profitability. And if they do, they should know better if they've made the kind of money they need to throw it around like this.

The question is whether the race happens or not.

i will give them this, they have gotten way more done than i would have bet money on them getting done.

[Slowhand]

IF this race happens, it will lose in excess of $20,000,000. I have a major beef with anybody like Tavo thinking that pro motorsports is a charity. That guy has been around for decades and everybody knows what he is. He may have good intentions, but the bottom line is, he was trying to hit a home run financially for himself without using any of his own money.

And back to dodging the yes or no question and bringing up profitability instead. I'm not arguing with you on profitability, because I agree that it's going to lose money and bucketloads of it; we've already had that discussion. I don't think the people involved on the money side truly give a fuck about the profitability. And if they do, they should know better if they've made the kind of money they need to throw it around like this.

The question is whether the race happens or not.

[aggie97]

The point of my post is that you will never know if it makes money or not. A smart owner is going to take cash income to his mattress rather than the bank. Once there, it never existed. It is like a coin op car wash or a whorehouse. Those things are always just barely breaking even.

I know what you are saying. Basically at the end of the year if things aren't going well, someone gets a paycheck bonus and the bank gets a "sorry I can't pay you" letter.

One of the funny things I remember being mentioned to sell this deal to the tax payers was the potential of the "research community" to build facilities here at the track.....as if there weren't 102 possible locations for those already... Those locations were built long ago, and nobody showed up. Why would they build them now at COTA? LOL!

[Broncojohnny]

Well, from first hand experience, just A TRACK does not generate a large amount of cash. A track with televised events CAN generate some cash (mid Ohio), but the profit line at the end of the year is usually 0 or damn close. This track, while it has a couple large events, also has a HUGE cost for upkeep and staffing year round, not to mention paying back the investors and likely the state...I can't remember the exact deal with the Major event fund.

The point of my post is that you will never know if it makes money or not. A smart owner is going to take cash income to his mattress rather than the bank. Once there, it never existed. It is like a coin op car wash or a whorehouse. Those things are always just barely breaking even.

[Darren M]

[dream scape]........ {boomer announcer voice}
NASCAR in Austin on SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY!!! We'll sell you the whole seat but you'll only need the front halfffff!!!!!
[/dream scape]

[momo]

there is a chance new jersey doesn't happen next year. hopefully it's delayed until 2014 at least.

[aggie97]

Are you surprised by the fact that the real estate development game is something of a con? Like Aggie said earlier most "real estate developers" are really just broke dicks with a piece of land in their back pocket and a shitty business plan in their head. Its a fee game where the developer puts money drawn from the construction loan in his pocket. I can see this whole line of bullshit fitting very well into the building of a racetrack. Hell, it makes more sense to build a track than something like an office building because the track generates fantastic cash income. It can lose quite a bit on paper when all that cash somehow doesn't get to the bank.

Well, from first hand experience, just A TRACK does not generate a large amount of cash. A track with televised events CAN generate some cash (mid Ohio), but the profit line at the end of the year is usually 0 or damn close. This track, while it has a couple large events, also has a HUGE cost for upkeep and staffing year round, not to mention paying back the investors and likely the state...I can't remember the exact deal with the Major event fund.

Now, throw in the talk of the New Jersey grand prix site because all the VIP's need a place to party in NYC across the river, and Austin starts looking like a an even worse investment. Austin's party scene is not large enough or up to par for the typical posh F1 crowd.

The track will be finished, the event in 2012 will happen. I just don't see a bright future for the property in coming years unless they can start getting more and more events from Rolex, Continental Tire series, ALMS, IndyCar, NASA, SCCA and any other group that can afford to rent the track. Hell, I would rent it for a weekend HPDE if I could charge my customers $1200 each for the two day weekend instead of the usual $300.

the big problem these days is that Racing budgets, pro and amatuer, are getting smaller and smaller. The teams just can't afford any more events and there is a TON of tracks competing to hold race weekends. The economy sucks and when we are having to rely on 3 events a year coming from outside the US, one of which is the big fish that might not come back, the outlook just isn't bright....and barely even dim.

I will say this, Austin better have the red carpet out and Houston and Dallas better be backing them 150% for getting all these fans in and out cleanly. There better be enough attractions for all those celebrities to attend and the other nightlife and venues need to be Sexxy enough for world class partying...not just redneck rodeos, beer fests and muddy concerts with a pig or cow over a pit. There has to be 5 star and 6 star services for these a-holes or the event will go to New Jersey/NYC in no time flat.

I am trying NOT to sound negative, I want the track to be successful and I want to race on it!!! I just hope the execution is top notch to keep the event on everyone's calendar for years to come.

[Broncojohnny]

IF this race happens, it will lose in excess of $20,000,000. I have a major beef with anybody like Tavo thinking that pro motorsports is a charity. That guy has been around for decades and everybody knows what he is. He may have good intentions, but the bottom line is, he was trying to hit a home run financially for himself without using any of his own money.

Are you surprised by the fact that the real estate development game is something of a con? Like Aggie said earlier most "real estate developers" are really just broke dicks with a piece of land in their back pocket and a shitty business plan in their head. Its a fee game where the developer puts money drawn from the construction loan in his pocket. I can see this whole line of bullshit fitting very well into the building of a racetrack. Hell, it makes more sense to build a track than something like an office building because the track generates fantastic cash income. It can lose quite a bit on paper when all that cash somehow doesn't get to the bank.

[Grape]

tavo has been out for a bout 9 months now i believe.

[momo]

Wasn't Tavo squeezed out of the deal because Bernie got pissed at him? Once he was out, then things moved forward?

i believe Taco was the link to Bernie. other than that, the guy had nothing, especially money.

from wiki

On a November 2011 interview, Ecclestone said he had terminated the contract with Hellmund because he was unable to deliver the promised financing.[7] On December 7, 2011 a new deal was agreed to between Formula 1 and the investors, McCombs and Epstein

[aggie97]

IF this race happens, it will lose in excess of $20,000,000. I have a major beef with anybody like Tavo thinking that pro motorsports is a charity. That guy has been around for decades and everybody knows what he is. He may have good intentions, but the bottom line is, he was trying to hit a home run financially for himself without using any of his own money.

Wasn't Tavo squeezed out of the deal because Bernie got pissed at him? Once he was out, then things moved forward?