a ftp thread.

[TEAMJACOB]

Look ginger...we already discussed this.

[Sean88gt]

You know Sean, you puppets are all on my time schedule.

Fact.

Look ginger...we already discussed this.

[Forever_frost]

Hell martial law would actually give citizens protection here as you'd have military with ROE instead of cops ensuring peace. But that'd run afoul of the Posse Commatatus Act

[Forever_frost]

TRy that with some gang bangers and let me know how it works. Please Mr. MS13, put your gun down, or I will have to shoot...You're dreaming.

And I would NEVER want any military personnel to have to use their ROE with any CRIME issue in the US. It's doomed to fail.

Again, HUMANS are involved. Mistakes WILL happen. You won't get to a criminally negligence criminal case on this deal.

No but it's okay for us to have those kinds of barriers on us when dealing with people who strap kids with explosives, set up IED's, use full auto rifles on us right? Why should the police have less restriction on them than us? Here, we have the Constitution. There? Nothing. You want to know why? If we do a bad shoot, the entire village comes down on us.

Here? If a cop kills someone who is innocent, they should be tried immediately, the family reimbursed for the funeral from the cop's salary and that asshole should be handed over to the family for his crimes against them. I bet they wouldn't squeeze the trigger as fast.

Are you saying MS13 is more dangerous than an Insurgent?

[TEAMJACOB]

TRy that with some gang bangers and let me know how it works. Please Mr. MS13, put your gun down, or I will have to shoot...You're dreaming.

And I would NEVER want any military personnel to have to use their ROE with any CRIME issue in the US. It's doomed to fail.

Again, HUMANS are involved. Mistakes WILL happen. You won't get to a criminally negligence criminal case on this deal.

like i said, i dont necessarily think the police should have to wait until fired upon. but, if they dont, then why the hell would our military when engaging the enemy. you dont agree with this double standard do you?

[dcs13]

i'd rather be rid of the bs rules of engagement vs asking our local pd to abide by the same as the military but they should pick one. either give this countries citizens the same respect we do our enemy, or let the mlitary do its thing to the best of its ability, how ever they see fit

TRy that with some gang bangers and let me know how it works. Please Mr. MS13, put your gun down, or I will have to shoot...You're dreaming.

And I would NEVER want any military personnel to have to use their ROE with any CRIME issue in the US. It's doomed to fail.

Again, HUMANS are involved. Mistakes WILL happen. You won't get to a criminally negligence criminal case on this deal.

[Forever_frost]

i'd rather be rid of the bs rules of engagement vs asking our local pd to abide by the same as the military but they should pick one. either give this countries citizens the same respect we do our enemy, or let the mlitary do its thing to the best of its ability, how ever they see fit

It really is this simple.

[TEAMJACOB]

I believe it. That's why the border patrol has to run and take cover now when an active shooter engages them. The current REGIME in power is a total piece of shit and wants this country to fail.

i'd rather be rid of the bs rules of engagement vs asking our local pd to abide by the same as the military but they should pick one. either give this countries citizens the same respect we do our enemy, or let the mlitary do its thing to the best of its ability, how ever they see fit

[Forever_frost]

NO that's what happens when you have LEADERS that fail to back up their men. That soldier made an appropriate tactical decision and his commanding officers ALLOWED him to be thrown under the bus...

No, that is our ROE and how protected people who kill us are. Now, we're in this country with the Constitution and cops can gun you down, kill your animals, destroy your property and nothing happens.

http://www.paolobarnard.info/docs/ROE%20Card.pdf

An ROE card. You have to be 100% certain of your target. If we did this as part of our raids, you'd see the soldier before a court martial by teh end of the week.

[dcs13]

dsc, frost is not exaggerating. the rules of engagement for our military of fucking stupid strict. my brother tells me about them and i just sit there, dumb founded with my jaw on the floor. its that absurd

I believe it. That's why the border patrol has to run and take cover now when an active shooter engages them. The current REGIME in power is a total piece of shit and wants this country to fail.

[dcs13]

This is what happens when you pull a trigger overseas:

When Waddell saw some civilians hoist the wounded insurgent onto a nearby tractor, the young Marine saw a tactical retreat. He ordered his snipers to fire at the tractor’s engine block, to disable it until a Marine foot patrol could arrive to detain the man.

What a lawyer later saw were civilians conducting a medical evacuation — and firing on them was a potential war crime.

Waddell ultimately ordered his snipers to cease fire after more civilians, including a child, gathered around the tractor.

In the end, the insurgent was found dead from his wounds. No civilians were injured.

Nevertheless, the incident made Waddell a target for months of investigations. His commander, Lt. Col. Seth Folsom, later said he acted “recklessly” and showed “poor judgment.” Although Waddell did not break any international laws of war, he violated the “tactical directive in effect at the time.”

The young officer was relieved from his job as company XO. Folsom later gave him a searing “unsatisfactory” on a fitness report, saying Waddell was “not recommended for promotion with his contemporaries.”

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/0...reers-042312w/

NO that's what happens when you have LEADERS that fail to back up their men. That soldier made an appropriate tactical decision and his commanding officers ALLOWED him to be thrown under the bus...

[TEAMJACOB]

No, we raised our weapon in response. However we couldn't fire unless fired upon. Hell, if fire came from a structure, you're no longer allowed to return fire. You have to leave. And you can't do night raids or kicking in doors without the permission of the local Imam and the villiage elders.

dsc, frost is not exaggerating. the rules of engagement for our military of fucking stupid strict. my brother tells me about them and i just sit there, dumb founded with my jaw on the floor. its that absurd


edit: while i dont know that cops should necessarily wait to be fired upon before firing themselves, i do think if our military is force to extend this courtesy to our enemy, then it isnt too much to ask from our local leos.

[dcs13]

So they opened fire on a guy in his apartment who answered the door with a pistol. That's not disputed. They failed to identify and they shot an innocent man. They should have knocked on doors and identified themselves. Call in more squads and keep an eye on the building. If someone answers the door with a weapon, you tell them to put it down and then handle it. You do not open fire on an innocent. Rule 1. The officers involved should face prison time.

Again, are you disputing that if this had gone down with me in the cop's shoes that I would be in jail right now?

If the cops didn't identify themselves , they should have. The homeowner didn;t HAVE to open the door, and the homeowner COULD have asked whos there. Again...Could haves on both sides. NO REQUIREMENT for the police to identify, ALTHOUGH it would have helped. They weren;t serving a warrant or kicking the door. They knocked.
Yes they shot an "innocent" man. But the innocent man was a real threat. POINTING a firearm AT them.
It's different if YOU shot the guy. You're not a COP in UNIFORM. FLorida law PROHIBITS use of force against a person you believe to be an officer. Since they were standing there in UNIFORM, it's reasonable that the homeowner knew they were officers.
Again, I hate he got shot, but you're not gonna get to the level of NEGLIGENT homicide. Civil case is pretty much a slam dunk though...

[Forever_frost]

Well, I hope any of you boys back from the war that go into civilian law enforcement "adjust" to the rules here. Cause I'm gonna bet if you wait to be fired on stateside, you're a dead man...or you're a hell of a betting man that the banger shooting your way is a bad shot...

You evidently haven't heard of cops and bad guys dumping entire magazines without hitting each other. Cops were 100% in the wrong here. They should be prosecuted and put in jail. Personal responsibility for their actions

[Forever_frost]

This is what happens when you pull a trigger overseas:

When Waddell saw some civilians hoist the wounded insurgent onto a nearby tractor, the young Marine saw a tactical retreat. He ordered his snipers to fire at the tractor’s engine block, to disable it until a Marine foot patrol could arrive to detain the man.

What a lawyer later saw were civilians conducting a medical evacuation — and firing on them was a potential war crime.

Waddell ultimately ordered his snipers to cease fire after more civilians, including a child, gathered around the tractor.

In the end, the insurgent was found dead from his wounds. No civilians were injured.

Nevertheless, the incident made Waddell a target for months of investigations. His commander, Lt. Col. Seth Folsom, later said he acted “recklessly” and showed “poor judgment.” Although Waddell did not break any international laws of war, he violated the “tactical directive in effect at the time.”

The young officer was relieved from his job as company XO. Folsom later gave him a searing “unsatisfactory” on a fitness report, saying Waddell was “not recommended for promotion with his contemporaries.”

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/04/military-second-guessing-rules-of-engagement-sink-careers-042312w/