Fullerton PD beat homeless man to death.

[mikec]

Just remember, there are over 800,000 law enforcement officers and the overwhelming majority did their job professionally yesterday.

I don't get the mentality that every officer is corrupt or engages in malfeasance.

Agreed that the majority did their job well. The difficulty for the general public is that we never know when we're going to encounter the bad apple. Kind of like how you guys never know when you're going to do so. The part that sucks for the regular Joe is that the cop has the power of the badge and can cover it up. Had it happen to my mother in law just next door when she was rear ended by a cop. The brothers in blue showed up and next thing you know she was written a ticket and it was her fault, this after the cop got out of his car and apologized. This guy just lost his life, she only lost money.

Bottom line is that it shouldn't happen. Period.

[03trubluGT]

Wow. Just the latest example of the power of the badge and the mentality that it breeds.

Just remember, there are over 800,000 law enforcement officers and the overwhelming majority did their job professionally yesterday.

I don't get the mentality that every officer is corrupt or engages in malfeasance.

[mikec]

Wow. Just the latest example of the power of the badge and the mentality that it breeds.

And I really like the river of blood.

[03trubluGT]

Security video with audio released of the full event. Those cops were fucking animals!

One officer admits to beating his face in with his taser. The altercation starts around the 15 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU0I...%2FKU0Imk2Bstg

It says you have to sign in to see the video.

I'm not sure I want to be that disgusted. Again..

[Steve]

Security video with audio released of the full event. Those cops were fucking animals!

One officer admits to beating his face in with his taser. The altercation starts around the 15 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU0Imk2Bstg&feature=player_embedded&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fembed%2FKU0Imk2Bstg

[03trubluGT]

Police audio key part of murder charges against Calif. officerProsecutors allege audio is evidence that Fullerton police Officer Manuel Ramos murdered Kelly Thomas

Associated Press

LOS ANGELES — As Fullerton police Officer Manuel Ramos approached a homeless man at a bus stop in July, he did what members of his department have been doing for a decade. He clicked on an audio recorder normally used to capture witness statements and exonerate officers accused of misconduct.

But prosecutors say the recorder captured something entirely different: the officer murdering a defenseless man suffering from schizophrenia.


Police agencies across the country are increasingly using audio and video devices to collect evidence, and they played a crucial role in prosecutors bringing murder charges this week against Ramos and an involuntary manslaughter count against a colleague, Cpl. Jay Cicinelli.

The violent encounter with Kelly Thomas was captured on surveillance video, but prosecutors say it was only when they paired the images with police audio that they understood what they were seeing. They said Thomas was pummeled, shocked with a Taser, beaten with a stun gun and taunted by Ramos as he stood over the victim and declared: "Now see my fists? They are getting ready to F you up."

Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas called that statement — and the fact it was recorded — a turning point.

"This encounter had changed from a fairly routine police detention into an impending beating at the hands of an angry police officer," Rackauckas said. "Ramos instilled in the victim a reasonable fear that his life was in danger."

Fullerton uses a device sold by Riverside-based Versatile Information Products Inc., which contracts with electronics-maker Olympus to customize standard digital voice recorders.

At the end of each shift, officers transfer files onto a server that backs them up as long as needed. The devices, used by hundreds of police agencies, do not let officers edit files, and they show if anything has been deleted.

Device salesman Stephen Gaskins said the units cost about $300 a piece, with the software to back up the files available separately.

"Expensive, but not as daunting as what lawsuits cost," Gaskins said, referring to the frequency the devices provide evidence to exonerate officers wrongly accused of misconduct.

About 700 other police departments across the country have gone a step further, equipping officers with tiny body cameras to record interactions.

In Oakland, where the department is under federal supervision following a case where four officers were caught planting drugs on suspects, police supervisors view the cameras as a useful extra check on officers.

The Los Angeles Police Department is spending $20 million to install video and audio systems in its squad cars. Officers will be wirelessly miked and a computer starts recording every time the emergency lights are activated.

Even before Fullerton police started using audio recorders, the department employed dashboard video cameras and microphones, but these proved unreliable, Sgt. Andrew Goodrich said. Recorders are now standard issue and officers are taught to switch them on every time they interact with a member of the public.

"In just about every investigation that goes to court, one of the common requests is that (prosecutors) want the (audio)," Goodrich said.

In Los Angeles, after some initial concerns private conversations between officers would be recorded, the police officer's union has embraced the technology.


EmailPrintCommentRSS
September 24, 2011

Police audio key part of murder charges against Calif. officer
Prosecutors allege audio is evidence that Fullerton police Officer Manuel Ramos murdered Kelly Thomas

Associated Press

LOS ANGELES — As Fullerton police Officer Manuel Ramos approached a homeless man at a bus stop in July, he did what members of his department have been doing for a decade. He clicked on an audio recorder normally used to capture witness statements and exonerate officers accused of misconduct.

But prosecutors say the recorder captured something entirely different: the officer murdering a defenseless man suffering from schizophrenia.

Related Articles:

2 Calif. cops charged in homeless man's death
Calif. police training eyed after mentally ill man dies
Related content sponsored by:

Police agencies across the country are increasingly using audio and video devices to collect evidence, and they played a crucial role in prosecutors bringing murder charges this week against Ramos and an involuntary manslaughter count against a colleague, Cpl. Jay Cicinelli.

The violent encounter with Kelly Thomas was captured on surveillance video, but prosecutors say it was only when they paired the images with police audio that they understood what they were seeing. They said Thomas was pummeled, shocked with a Taser, beaten with a stun gun and taunted by Ramos as he stood over the victim and declared: "Now see my fists? They are getting ready to F you up."

Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas called that statement — and the fact it was recorded — a turning point.

"This encounter had changed from a fairly routine police detention into an impending beating at the hands of an angry police officer," Rackauckas said. "Ramos instilled in the victim a reasonable fear that his life was in danger."

Fullerton uses a device sold by Riverside-based Versatile Information Products Inc., which contracts with electronics-maker Olympus to customize standard digital voice recorders.

At the end of each shift, officers transfer files onto a server that backs them up as long as needed. The devices, used by hundreds of police agencies, do not let officers edit files, and they show if anything has been deleted.

Device salesman Stephen Gaskins said the units cost about $300 a piece, with the software to back up the files available separately.

"Expensive, but not as daunting as what lawsuits cost," Gaskins said, referring to the frequency the devices provide evidence to exonerate officers wrongly accused of misconduct.

About 700 other police departments across the country have gone a step further, equipping officers with tiny body cameras to record interactions.

In Oakland, where the department is under federal supervision following a case where four officers were caught planting drugs on suspects, police supervisors view the cameras as a useful extra check on officers.

The Los Angeles Police Department is spending $20 million to install video and audio systems in its squad cars. Officers will be wirelessly miked and a computer starts recording every time the emergency lights are activated.

Even before Fullerton police started using audio recorders, the department employed dashboard video cameras and microphones, but these proved unreliable, Sgt. Andrew Goodrich said. Recorders are now standard issue and officers are taught to switch them on every time they interact with a member of the public.

"In just about every investigation that goes to court, one of the common requests is that (prosecutors) want the (audio)," Goodrich said.

In Los Angeles, after some initial concerns private conversations between officers would be recorded, the police officer's union has embraced the technology.

"In the vast majority of cases, the public is going to see the police officers being very restrained and very professional, and that's a positive," Los Angeles Police Protective League president Paul Weber said.

Another piece of high-tech evidence came from Cicinelli's Taser. By downloading information on the weapon, investigators determined he used it three times in "drive stun" mode, pushing the device directly into Thomas. Then he used it a fourth time, firing darts from weapon and shocking Thomas for about 12 seconds.

Cicinelli then allegedly smashed Thomas about the face with the Taser. Cicinelli's attorney Bill Hadden said he had not received any discovery in the case but claimed prosecutors had gotten a lot of facts wrong. He said he would be making a fuller response in the coming weeks.

Ramos's attorney, John Barnett, has disputed prosecutors' account of the confrontation with Thomas. He says when his client made the threat about his fists, he was using a subtle type of force to get a suspect to comply. Ramos was responding to a transit hub in the suburban college town after someone reported seeing a homeless man breaking into cars.

In all, six officers were at the scene but the other four were not expected to be charged. Cicinelli's device and that of one other officer were not activated, though police say it's not unusual for an officer to forget to switch on the mechanism if they are responding to an unfolding emergency.

http://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/4412614-Police-audio-key-part-of-murder-charges-against-Calif-officer/

[mikec]

Thankfully I've never had to deal with anything like that, but I've met Matt in person and talked with him a number of times. He's DEFINITELY one of the good ones. We don't see eye to eye on every issue, but if all police officers had his moral code, the world would be a much better place!!!

qft

[Cooter]

Bring some weed. Apparently I need to loosen up.

LOL!!! the sense of humor on this guy!

[Cooter]

I speak from very personal experience when I say that Matt does NOT defend the actions of every police officer out there. If it weren't for him and his advice I would be in a stand still right now with a particular law enforcement agency. Thanks to him, I was put in touch with internal affairs and 4 officers are now suspended without pay pending the outcome of the IA investigation.


THANK YOU MATT VERY MUCH FOR YOUR ADVICE


Now, his help with me has nothing to do with FT. W PD, or this particular thread topic, but it has to be said that he does NOT defend every single cop on the planet.

Thankfully I've never had to deal with anything like that, but I've met Matt in person and talked with him a number of times. He's DEFINITELY one of the good ones. We don't see eye to eye on every issue, but if all police officers had his moral code, the world would be a much better place!!!

[03trubluGT]

If it weren't for your advice, there's no telling how bad it could've become. When I contacted Internal Affairs and submitted my 3 page complaint FULL of specific details that you provided (exigent circumstances, etc) it rattled the fuck out of their office.

My grandfather was a police officer for over 30 years and I've always had nothing BUT respect for every single law enforcement agency, officer, military etc..... until what happened to me. Now I loathe those specific officers that were involved in turning my life upside down, all because they were suffering from some sort of God complex.

One of the dumbasses even lied on his report ....then when they gathered my witnesses statements, and reviewed the tapes.... well let's just say .... and I can't find his name on any employment listings with the department anymore. Wonder what happened to him?

I had never been so happy in my life as I was the day I got to hear they were all suspended without pay and one (hopefully) got fired. That about evens the score financially with all the legal fees I've had to come up with for no fucking reason.

After about 5 anxiety attacks, (didn't know that's what they were) and an ER visit because I actually thought I was having a heart attack (couldn't help but think of saladbar's sudden death and it scared the FUCK out of me) so I went and had a whole battery of tests done. My M.D. is keeping close tabs on me now because he says I'm one more panic attack away from stroking out.

My attorney told me the civil suit is going to be a slam dunk because of all the tapes that were reviewed that backs my complaint with 100% accuracy.

The officers getting into law enforcement these days aren't worth a fucking shit. 90% (IMO) do it for the power trip and not to protect and serve. They'd rather make up their own set of laws on a case by case basis, than to uphold the ones they swore in to uphold.

Another point I should make is that I hope the other officers weren't following his lead due to him lying to them too. That would suck to do something because a fellow officer told you one thing, and then find out you took some kind of police action due to a lie.

[03trubluGT]

Don't know what you helped her with (I care, but don't need to know) but I'm glad you did it. Kudos to you.

I hate situations were government/legal/police/whatever issues cause normal citizens money that will not be recuperated - for no real reason.

If I ever do I ride along, I'll bring a 6 pack for you to drink while driving around.

Bring some weed. Apparently I need to loosen up.

[ceyko]

Kim, I absolutely hate hearing that things like that happen. I am so thankful that I work in a "good" department with a bunch of people that try to do the right thing. If I see misconduct or idiocy, I address it immediately. Luckily I have never had to witness what happened to this poor guy in CA.

Sometimes it makes me glad that I've only got 10 years and 5 months left on my 30 year stint. I can only correct so much BS.

Don't know what you helped her with (I care, but don't need to know) but I'm glad you did it. Kudos to you.

I hate situations were government/legal/police/whatever issues cause normal citizens money that will not be recuperated - for no real reason.

If I ever do I ride along, I'll bring a 6 pack for you to drink while driving around.

[03trubluGT]

If it weren't for your advice, there's no telling how bad it could've become. When I contacted Internal Affairs and submitted my 3 page complaint FULL of specific details that you provided (exigent circumstances, etc) it rattled the fuck out of their office.

My grandfather was a police officer for over 30 years and I've always had nothing BUT respect for every single law enforcement agency, officer, military etc..... until what happened to me. Now I loathe those specific officers that were involved in turning my life upside down, all because they were suffering from some sort of God complex.

One of the dumbasses even lied on his report ....then when they gathered my witnesses statements, and reviewed the tapes.... well let's just say .... and I can't find his name on any employment listings with the department anymore. Wonder what happened to him?

I had never been so happy in my life as I was the day I got to hear they were all suspended without pay and one (hopefully) got fired. That about evens the score financially with all the legal fees I've had to come up with for no fucking reason.

After about 5 anxiety attacks, (didn't know that's what they were) and an ER visit because I actually thought I was having a heart attack (couldn't help but think of saladbar's sudden death and it scared the FUCK out of me) so I went and had a whole battery of tests done. My M.D. is keeping close tabs on me now because he says I'm one more panic attack away from stroking out.

My attorney told me the civil suit is going to be a slam dunk because of all the tapes that were reviewed that backs my complaint with 100% accuracy.

The officers getting into law enforcement these days aren't worth a fucking shit. 90% (IMO) do it for the power trip and not to protect and serve. They'd rather make up their own set of laws on a case by case basis, than to uphold the ones they swore in to uphold.

Kim, I absolutely hate hearing that things like that happen. I am so thankful that I work in a "good" department with a bunch of people that try to do the right thing. If I see misconduct or idiocy, I address it immediately. Luckily I have never had to witness what happened to this poor guy in CA.

Sometimes it makes me glad that I've only got 10 years and 5 months left on my 30 year stint. I can only correct so much BS.

[MutherjuggZ]

Thanks for the kudos, I hope your situation gets resolved completely and justly.

I doubt if it will do much to sway those radical haters, but at least know there are some who care about doing the right thing.

If it weren't for your advice, there's no telling how bad it could've become. When I contacted Internal Affairs and submitted my 3 page complaint FULL of specific details that you provided (exigent circumstances, etc) it rattled the fuck out of their office.

My grandfather was a police officer for over 30 years and I've always had nothing BUT respect for every single law enforcement agency, officer, military etc..... until what happened to me. Now I loathe those specific officers that were involved in turning my life upside down, all because they were suffering from some sort of God complex.

One of the dumbasses even lied on his report ....then when they gathered my witnesses statements, and reviewed the tapes.... well let's just say .... and I can't find his name on any employment listings with the department anymore. Wonder what happened to him?

I had never been so happy in my life as I was the day I got to hear they were all suspended without pay and one (hopefully) got fired. That about evens the score financially with all the legal fees I've had to come up with for no fucking reason.

After about 5 anxiety attacks, (didn't know that's what they were) and an ER visit because I actually thought I was having a heart attack (couldn't help but think of saladbar's sudden death and it scared the FUCK out of me) so I went and had a whole battery of tests done. My M.D. is keeping close tabs on me now because he says I'm one more panic attack away from stroking out.

My attorney told me the civil suit is going to be a slam dunk because of all the tapes that were reviewed that backs my complaint with 100% accuracy.

The officers getting into law enforcement these days aren't worth a fucking shit. 90% (IMO) do it for the power trip and not to protect and serve. They'd rather make up their own set of laws on a case by case basis, than to uphold the ones they swore in to uphold.

[03trubluGT]

But he does defend a shit-ton of them, and will blindly defend them even when the obvious proof (like videos) show they are wrong.

Remember the black cop that pulled his weapon because there was a snowball fight in progress?

Or all the "I don't agree with this BUT"...comments...

He has decidedly changed his tune in the last year, but anyone can go back to Canada and count the times he blindly stood up and played defend-a-cop.

Stevo

You're such a jack ass on this topic. You are blind to the big picture, even when I explain it to you. Your hatred for policing due to past experiences (of which, I'm sure you were a perfect angel) has tainted your ability to look at information objectively.

The black officer in the video that you referenced did not point the gun at the crowd, nor did he discharge the weapon. Merely exposing your gun to a threat is not a procedure violation. He did identify himself, but I'm sure that if you were confronted with a crowd of 30 people, you are such a big man that you could handle them all by yourself, unarmed, and dressed like Ghandi.

I've never "changed my tune" because the truth is the truth. If any given situation the officer was right, I took Hell for it, if I said the officer was wrong, you made some weak and inflammitory comment that I was backpedaling or just saying that to make myself look good and that I was really trying to back door defend the cop.

You've always had something against me, but I'm OK with it. People who are bitter and angry will stay bitter and angry no matter what I do.

Do us all a favor, go ahead and spend a few hours researching Canada and pull up a few good examples of blind defense of pure police misconduct and post links.

The real litmus test to my character is the PM box both here and in Canada.

While you might enjoy bashing me, I've helped dozens of people with thier problems/situations.

It must eat at you knowing that all you can do is bitch and moan, while I actively provide help where I can. The proof is the post above where Kim gives me thanks, and all you can post is negative babble.

Thanks for the support.